![]() |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
You are not logged in.
Pages: 1
I think there's a longer story about this in the Times, but the website seems to be down. There's a new Equality Bill under discussion in the UK, and this is part of a proposed "code of practice" to help employers interpret existing legislation. At issue is whether veganism, and belief in climate change, and non-belief in God, are worthy of protection under the law. Lurking in the background is the question of whether such beliefs can be equated with religious belief for legal purposes.
I've never had any trouble playing both sides of the fence where the "religion?" issue is concerned. When vegan-hostile people (recently ex-vegans doing interviews with anti-vegan blogs, frinstance) say that veganism is (or is like) a religion or cult, I think they're generally full of poo (great line by Vantine: "I would also ask that anyone who calls anything "a religion" first provide a definition and then use it. Otherwise, you are just being reactionary and obnoxious. Thpppptttttttt."). On the other hand, I do find it inconsistent that some people who would respect the religious-based dietary needs of guests in their home (who serves a ham to someone they know keeps kosher?) should respect the practices of their vegan friends. I.e., you don't have to like, or even understand, what your friends and family do (though understanding it would be good). But if you think that the person is worthy of respect as your friend, family member, or dinner or houseguest, then you put practice behind that.
That's just my mini-rant, and probably has nothing to do with this proposed code, which (at best), I suppose, would prevent someone from getting fired for their personal beliefs, and expand the range of those protected beliefs a bit. I doubt it would be able to prevent an acquaintance host from telling you that the cheese dip is vegan!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop … chdog.html
Offline
re·li·gion
/rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Show Spelled[ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
Personally, I can easily see parallels between veganism and religion, particularly definitions 2 and most of all, 6. I think this is especially true of the variants of veganism that consider ANY use of ANY animal at all completely out of the question, even if it doesn't hurt them -like feeding worms scraps for vericomposting, or picking up sunbleached shells on the beach and putting them on a necklace, both views I've seen espoused on the PPK. That seems to be very much based on a fundamental set of beliefs - basically the opposite of the other religious philosophy, that God gave Man dominion over nature to use as he sees fit. I think pretty much everyone agrees that dominion over nature is a religious belief, so I don't see why the opposite wouldn't be also. And when you have many threads where people are passionately agreeing that there is one single definition of veganism, and getting really upset about "almost vegans", I think there you definitely get into the area of #2, with the set of beliefs being agreed upon by a number of persons.
On the other hand, I'm more of the variety of vegan that is ok with some usage of animal products, as long as you are absolutely sure it isn't a byproduct of animal cruelty. (like for ex, if I had a rescued pet chicken, that I knew lived well, I would have no problem with using its poop as fertilizer in my garden) Still, I do consider my veganism if not a religious, definitely a spiritual belief - it goes part and parcel with my philosophy of nonviolence that I should be as harmless as possible on this earth. I definitely consider it a matter of conscience that I follow devotedly. The only reason I wouldn't call it a religion is because to me, that implies something organized - whereas I just made my own philosophy from my own experiences and what I've read of other religions, so I think that is more "spiritual". But all of the definitions on dictionary.com above don't really make that distinction, so I guess it could be considered my own personal religion.
So, I guess either way you look at it, there's an argument for it qualifying as a religious belief. There probably is good reason to have it protected by law. One big example I can think of now is when you get into the kind of problems that come about if vegans choose to raise their children as vegans, like whether teachers in public schools will have to feed them that way, etc.
As for climate change though - I think that's kind of pushing it. Belief in protecting the environment, maybe, but belief in climate change? I can't see how that is connected with religion at all.
Offline
Wait, I just thought of something else. I'm sure there actually are lots of other vegans who probably don't do it for religious reasons. Like if you just do it because you think it will help you lose weight, or because it is healthy. There's probably also environmental vegans, who just think it is better for the earth (although arguably that might be connected to an ethical matter also). So, it isn't like what I discussed above would fit all vegans. Which I suppose would make it harder to justify that law.
Offline
I think I remember Anthony Bourdain saying that he respects the dietary practices of Hindus since it is a part of their religion, but he hates plain ol' vegetarians because we are just a bunch of overprivileged, rude mustards living in developed countries. How does that make sense? Why are my choices and beliefs somehow less valid just because they are outside of organized religion? I think the problem lies in respecting and upholding the rights of organized groups more than respecting individual choices. Just because I am not religious doesn't mean that my beliefs are somehow less meaningful.
Offline
if veganism is a religion, then it's the only one i'll choose. and if there's a legislation protecting me from discrimination, i'll take that, too.
protect those who aren't mainstream - yes! however, i foresee omnivores taking full advantage of this and harassing vegans even more.
also, i don't think the climate change belief needs to be protected under a law.... ![]()
as far as persecution goes...i haven't heard of vegans being exiled or anything just because they refused to eat animal products...well, politically, anyway. hmmm. i'm going to think about this while i go grocery shopping. i'll come back with a better answer. thank you for invoking a thought process. i was ready to put my head in the microwave!
Offline
I think this is great. I always find it odd when people try to insult veganism by comparing it to religion. Yes, and? It's a belief system that helps organize my life, helps me understand my place in the universe, is a code of ethics for my behavior, a source of community...this sounds like the best of religion. It's also funny to me because I have a religious practice, so it's insulting one aspect of me by comparing it to another one. But people who do respect religious dietary restrictions will generally respect veganism, I've found, Anthony Bourdain is the exceptional crasshole.
I don't think climate change would qualify though--it doesn't seem enough of an organizing principal to correlate to religion. And non-belief should be protected by freedom of belief. Freedom of religion should include freedom not to have one.
I'd love to see our ideas about freedom of religion expand to include to mean freedom of conscience, in all its forms.
Online
I think veganism is an ideology not a religion. Ideology also works for definitions 2 and 6 up there. Incidentally, omnivorism (aka carnism) is also an ideology. It's just the overwhelmingly dominant ideology. http://challengeoppression.com/2010/01/ … nstructed/
Online
michelleg wrote:
But people who do respect religious dietary restrictions will generally respect veganism=
Funny thing is that I always heard as a kid that Seventh-day adventism was sort of a "cult" presumably because they told people how to eat and that how to eat didn't include meat (plus its a relatively young religion).
So unless you have millenia behind your vegetarian religion, you are a cult.
Offline
bryophyte wrote:
So unless you have millenia behind your vegetarian religion, you are a cult.
The Seventh-Day Adventist denomination only dates back to 1863, which grew out of William Miller's ideas which he in turn first circulated in 1833. Anyhoo, not a lot of depth of time. So may it be that all of our thoughts and beliefs are as well protected as those of the "faithful" and "religious."
Last edited by tsukemono (Mon 3/8/10 12:54 am)
Offline
Seventh Day Adventists are best described as a new religious movement. Cult is sort of value-laden.
The definitions I would look to in examining veganism come from the sociology of religion (Weber, Durkheim and so forth). Functional versus substantive. For some people, veganism functions as a religion. Sports also functions as a religion for some people. Some people can just watch the hockey playoffs and leave it at that.
Offline
Considering how I'm treated at restaurants by shitty servers just because I'm vegan, yeah, I say it's worth a shot.
Offline
When I heard the court case about climate change I thought something along the lines of this might happen. I've not really read enough on it to understand the implications. Interesting to ponder.
Offline
Pages: 1